Since the telephone was invented there have been rules of social engagement and courtship. Let’s take a walk down memory lane, where Black men weren’t coddled by their mothers (either for societal reasons, racial pressures, or purely selfish reasons -or all three) and mother’s and father’s raised men not only to be great men but also great husbands and fathers. Not somehow given the false notion that THEY were the TOTAL prize in the relationship equation. So, he makes that first call after wooing her at an ice-cream social. And calls again to ask her if she wants to go to a picture show. They date. He woos and pursues. And its all courtship wedded bliss history.
Then women’s liberation (not exactly engineered for the black woman (sorry bell and Alice-but the civil rights movement caused women to often take sides against race and gender) told our mothers (and depending on your age) and grandmothers, that we could do it like the boys. We could separate sex and love. Some of our mother’s/grandmother’s decided that they didn’t “need a man” and of course had male children. These women weren’t raising their boys to think about being better mate’s than their own father’s were. They became EXTRA special. Mama’s little husband.
Personally I appreciate the strides that my forefathers and foremothers have made for me to enjoy the life that I live today. But you can fast forward evolution and progress to 4050A.D. Please believe that Tiffany Jetson with her 3000sqft condo in the sky IS STILL GOING TO WANT TO FEEL ” soft and pink”. And “soft and pink” could be relative. To me gender roles and expectations will never go away. They will be negotiated but they won’t cease to exist. The winners (and they both can win) in the relationship equation will figure out how to meet and get their needs met. QUID QUO PRO -its not just a legal term. Its a romantic one too.
this post was dedicated to the Single Black Male. Literally and Figuratively.
17 Comments
Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 2:05 pm
You know I’m going to have to write a response to this … lol.
And I will say now that I’m all about “soft and pink” … literally and figuratively.
Lol … anitdater is gonna love this.
Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 4:20 pm
The days of the rotary phone…back when men were men and women were women. She cooked, she cleaned, and it was no surprise to find her at home barefoot and pregnant. He brought home the bacon. To become man and wife, the gentleman would have to prove through the courtship process that he was worth her while. He needed to “demonstrate” that he was financially ready for a family. He had to prove that he could be “head of household”.
Fast forward half a century. Bras were burned. The aprons were exchanged for college degrees. Women, in many cases, earn as much or more than their male counterparts in some metro areas. Women are self-sufficient. Why roll the clock back 50 years? Do women want a “partner” or a “head of household”? If you want a partner – perhaps dating should require “mutual” effort. Just a thought…
Thursday, February 21, 2008 at 5:00 pm
So why not throw out all the “predated” biological functions also—I mean hell since I’m liberated and all why would I possibly need to ovulate. In fact, why not join the revolution of men (who are fascinated with childbearing) and carry children for nine months. Go through all those “out of date” hormonal changes that have you craving pickles and ice-cream. Funny how those pesky little biological things don’t change with the times.
You’ve overintellectualized a conversation thats just as much emotional as is socially current. I mean when you get out of a car (that you might be driving while dating a woman who might make 200k a year) do you have her open her own doors too?
In your world do gender roles still exist? Have you ever negotiated any? Have you’ve found a Quid Quo Pro Progressive women who’d cook you a dinner-if you brought her flowers etc. etc?
Friday, February 22, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Sorry, but as usual … I agree with Antidater.
Its ludicrous that a lot of women want to take all the benefits of women liberation (their own voice, freedom to work, independence, revamped gender roles) and hold onto the benefits of the early eras (chivalry, coddling, being taken care of).
How can you be independent and still want to be taken care of?
There are certain things I am okay with doing because my Dad taught them to me, but I cannot support the demand to simple “have it all” that is so prevalint nowadays.
And yes … when someone gets out of my car … best believe they opened and closed their own door
Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 10:54 am
Ha ha! “Quid Pro Quo” You said it! In the movie, “A Bronx Tale” a new tradition was started: When a man opens a car door for a woman, the woman then gets in the car, unlocks his door and pushes it open. The principles employed in this tradition are reciprocity and no free-loading. I can’t carry a baby for nine months, it’s impossible – yet it is possible for women to carry their own weight and they insist on not doing it.
Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 12:25 pm
SBm I understand what you mean when you say “We want it all” However I believe these new roles have been forced upon us women. I mean now days men aren’t providing and being the “Men” that they should so I have to go out and get an education, work, cook, take care of my house, and then somewhere on the side still feel like I am a woman by making a baby(which I happen to not need a man for anymore just the sperm) If I could go back into time I would trade todays time for the soft n pink era hands down cuz this shit just aint right.
Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 9:22 pm
I agree with Mikki and would add that I think that some traditional gender roles are embedded just as much as the biological is, though there are some women who don’t desire to be mothers or wives. The feeling is inate. And I think women are lying if they tell you that they don’t like a chilvarous man.
The bottom line is that some men buy hook line and sinker into the urban myth ratio where theres like 40 black women to one man. Its a lie. To me there is one perfect mate for one provided you are ready and are doing the emotional work. When a man is doing things that make me happy-which are comprised of some chilvary. For instance I love fresh flowers. I love to have my door opened. Regardless of what I make. I will always want this. And when I’m being pleased my nature is to want to make my mate happy.
Anti and SBM are special. Real special. The special that wants to compete on an emotional level. If you, SBM and Anti feel like yall are getting the short end of the stick —then you are looking at it wrong. And youi will always manifest what you feel you are getting.
Why does doing chilvarous things –take away from you as men. WTF is wrong with this selfish picture.
Sunday, February 24, 2008 at 11:03 pm
I love to be chivalrous! Yet, in the dating economy chivalrous men are like folks with subprime credit and some women are like predatory lenders – just looking to take advantage. I will forever and always be a gentleman. It’s just that some ladies are gaming the system.
Sunday, February 24, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Anti—Imma call you analogy man!!!! You have an analogy for EVERYTHING LOL. I’d remind you that the subprime credit fiasco got WAY out of hand. And I’d like to also remind you that the MARKET ALWAYS CORRECTS ITSELF and comes back to some form of balance. Predatory lenders do go to banking and finance jail (fined and exposed). And some subprime folks are finding remedies (ways out of their mortgages-with those lenders having to pay back everything the borrower paid). And the potential borrower gets educated on making better financial decisions from other’s woes. The story doesn’t always have to have a completely bad ending. And the gamer always gets gamed.
And if I can again quote the great Ethel Ross (great grandma). “What doesn’t come out in the wash, comes out in the rinse.” This notion shouldn’t harden you to the process. I think the process (with a bad experience) only gets better-if you listen to your life.
Further I’ll add that maybe just maybe you should modify your outlook. You and SBM have dedicated blogs to your search and its plight. What if you changed how you thought about it? I mean isn’t insanity doing the same thing and expecting something different?
Monday, February 25, 2008 at 9:50 am
I’m ever changing up my approach. Within the past 1.5 years (since graduation) I’ve been field testing a few more weapons. Its a war out here.
My general overall problem is that many women want to be coddled. They want to be taken care of like a child. This was the case in the 50’s and earlier, because the world regarded women as second class citizens and at that time they needed a man to take care of them to survive.
That isn’t the case anymore. Women can (and do) get and survive on their own.
Because of this shift, no longer do I need to take care of my mate. I can actually find a partner who is bringing a much as me to the relationship and … can actually open her own door.
I am chivalrous and romantic, but I don’t coddle. Your not a child and I don’t need to buckle your seatbelt for you. I’m not going to treat you like one of the guys, but I’m not going treat you like my 3 year old cousin.
Monday, February 25, 2008 at 10:13 am
“Your not a child and I don’t need to buckle your seatbelt for you”
So I guess I don’t get a sippy cup either??? LOL
————
“Within the past 1.5 years (since graduation) I’ve been field testing a few more weapons. Its a war out here.”
For the love of metaphors….A war on WHO AND WHAT? there is NO war. Put down your WOMD. Women and men essentially want the same thing. We all need each other but in different ways. I don’t want or need a man to pay my cable/mortgage/student loan bill-but I do need a man to root for me. Be my prince charming in a more evolved relevant open minded adaptable way.
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 1:49 am
[...] a secret crush on), The Comeback Girl, wrote a post dedicated to lil ol’ me, called “One Ringy Dingy, Two Ringy Dingy (Mama’s Little Husband)” which is a very … “interesting” [...]
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I just came here to breath don’t mind me I couldn’t find space anyplace else lol.
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 7:51 pm
“To me gender roles and expectations will never go away. They will be negotiated but they won’t cease to exist”
Exactly. Anything else or lack of is an excuse.
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Hmmm… Stankonimama was correct. Women’s Lib f’d it all up for black women! S-mama’s version: white women were tired of being trapped in the crib so they decided to break out. In the process f’d up the whole game for everyone.
So if Stank-0 is understanding Comeback Girl correctly, she simply wants a man to make the intial move. Stank-0 will be honest, in the 21st c, men don’t have to do anything. Men can get laid because now that’s socially acceptable. What’s the point in datin or even marriage? Men get what they want.
A question, why must a woman be chased?! Stank-0 has never understood that.
Thursday, June 4, 2009 at 12:10 am
[...] mothers. Do you think your boys are too good to work while you groom them to be great fu!ck ups little husbands for you. You are making them irresponsible black men for society and later, other women. In all my [...]
Thursday, June 4, 2009 at 7:56 am
Thank god I was in grad school when this conversation went down because I would never go to class
. Hi-five to this post …..and the one you did today Comeback.